We recently sat down with three law students who work here at the Queensland Law Society to hear their views on engaging in part-time work in the law while studying. Meet Jaime Gunning and Caiti Betts from the QLS Policy team and Sarah Millar from the QLS Ethics and Practice Centre.
Tell us about your role in the QLS Policy team? What aspect have you most enjoyed?
Jaime: I'm a law clerk in the legal policy team, I first started in the legal policy team as a legal assistant after one year of my law degree, so I was pretty fortunate to have landed such a cool gig so early on. One of my favourite aspects of being in legal policy is the collegiality of the team, but that's also something that you find across the whole of QLS.
I also like the variety of work we're exposed to in the team because we have thirty policy committees in different areas of the law, so it’s cool to be exposed to all those various areas.
You mentioned that you landed this role in your first year of university. How did you land it?
Jaime: I was fortunate to have someone put my name forward, which I’m super grateful for. From my own experience, building connections can make a big difference, even if the network is relatively small or just one person.
What have been some key learnings for you during your time in the policy team?
Caiti: Learning so much more about a completely different side of law to what we do at uni, it's really relevant to what we do but we learn about it a lot more in terms of practice rather than the policy side of it. It’s really interesting to see how that works in terms of policy development, we're kind of lucky that we get to see it in different stages, which is really cool.
Just learning about the breadth, as Jaime said, we have thirty policy committees, so we have thirty different areas that we are exposed to, which is quite unique because usually you'd be in a one area and you don't really get to be involved in the others, but also learning the ropes of how an office works whilst you're still a student.
I think that's been really beneficial having this role and helpful for the future, also being able to interact with so many different practitioners, who are on our committees has been really useful as well.
Sarah, your role is a bit different, can you tell us about the work you do in the QLS Ethics and Practice Centre and how it has supported you in your study?
Sarah: Yes, I'm a law clerk with the Ethics and Practice Centre, our team provides guidance, support and counsel to practitioners on professional conduct related matters. In general practice, you generally work in a specific area and in those dealings you're bound by professional conduct rules. So we have practitioners come to us and say, how do I deal with this situation? And it's all the practical side of things, such as how do I communicate with my client, or the other side of the matter. I really enjoy seeing how those interpersonal skills gel with actually applying and practicing the law.
I think at uni you learn to apply the law and the intricacies of the law but in my role I feel like you learn how to conduct yourself as a professional in dealings with those around you and I think those are really important skills for lawyers because so often you can have such a deep understanding of what you're advising on or the field you're in but if you can't communicate to someone or if you can't apply those skills and be bound by those rules, you can't do your job. So I think it's really fundamental to the practice of law.
I’d like to pose this question to each of you – how have you managed working part-time while studying? We know it is challenging, do you have any tips on balancing this?
Jaime: Yeah, for sure. It can be challenging, but I think that would be the case even if you were just studying law because you would just be studying law more. I think it's good to have balance as well, which is probably my advice, to have a healthy balance between, law school, works and also your hobbies and interests.
I think it's really important to make time for like your interests and yourself because you're so much more than just law school and work and if you have that other aspect to you as well, I think it’s very handy and it complements whatever you’re doing.
Caiti: Yeah, I think in terms of balancing it, I find it best to kind of silo the days. It doesn't always work and it's not always possible, but to basically have work days and uni days to make it easier to balance them. It is tricky to balance, but I think that you have so many more benefits of working whilst you're at uni that you learn so much more outside of the classroom when you are working and interacting with practitioners, which is really useful.
I think of it as an add-on to uni. It makes the uni experience so much better because you're seeing what you've learned in the classroom, in practice, and I think that's really useful and it solidifies what you're learning at uni. So whilst it is a challenging balance, it's very rewarding, so that kind of helps you motivate yourself to just fit it all in.
Sarah: I find that working here really motivates me with uni because when I'm at uni sometimes it can feel like a bit of a drag, but then when I come to work I go, wow this is great, this is purposeful. I'm learning, I love my job, I love what I'm doing. So I think the challenge is definitely worthwhile.
I think I work best under pressure, so when I'm busy, I'm in a good space productivity wise. Working part-time is tricky but it's so rewarding. My tip would be to silo and to make time for life, to make time for your social life, but to still have time for study and not overcommit because I think as soon as you spread yourself too thin, you start to compromise on those other things. So for me, the most important thing is uni, and then I always try and work when I can around that. And obviously it really helps having such a great work balance, our teams are so flexible and really accommodating for us. In our roles, we feel like we have a lot of purpose, which really helps with the motivation side.
Who in the legal field has inspired you and why?
Jaime: I think for me it's really the volunteers on our policy committees. So no one in particular but it's so nice to see such dedicated individuals because obviously they're so busy and consumed with the practice and the actual job, but then also they volunteer so much of their time.
I think that's really nice to see and to have those examples as well while going through law school.
Sarah: The person that inspires me in the field would be my manager, Grace Van Baarle. She's a really great mentor to me and I feel like navigating the profession can be tricky but she is a really great example of applying your best skill set to different situations and doing your best in every scenario that confronts. I just feel like she's a really great, motivating person and as well, my mum's friend. I think having mentors is really valuable.
Caiti: Someone I look up to in the legal profession sits on our human rights committee, she's also my human rights lecturer at uni, and her name is Professor Tamara Walsh. She is really inspiring in the work that she does in the field of human rights, in children's law, and in the youth justice system. At uni she explained the course in a way which just really opened my eyes to all these different possibilities. Also like Jaime was saying before, these are people who are so good at volunteering their time, they're so busy in their professional lives, but then they've got so much time to give to others, to give to the policy committees as just one example.
But yeah, she's someone that's really inspiring to look up to in the law and she does some pretty cool things, if I was able to make one bit of difference like that in my career, that would be pretty cool.
Have any of your perceptions about working in the legal profession changed based your experience at QLS?
Jaime: I don't know if I had any preconceived notions. I tried to go in with a fairly open mind, but it's definitely solidified my reason for doing law. I got into law because I thought it was a prestigious thing to do, like all the TV shows, like private practice, all that. But working here has definitely changed that and opened my eyes to what I actually like. I think why I'm still doing it is different to why I started it.
Caiti: I was going to say almost the same thing. I think I came into law school and came into this role with the perception that everyone goes into private practice and goes to the big firms. That's the be all and end all, that's the pathway, that's the dream, that's where you should be going. Working here and interacting with so many practitioners really opened my eyes to the fact that that's absolutely not the only pathway you've got, there are so many practitioners in mid-sized firms, and community legal centres, and of course you do have the top tier firms.
I think if I hadn't had the opportunity here, I wouldn't have realised just how many opportunities there were probably until I finished law school and graduated and then been like, wow, what do I do now? But I've got the advantage of seeing all these pathways before I finish uni, and I think that's really valuable.
Sarah: I concur. Ha-ha.
What advice do you have for individuals considering studying law in Queensland?
Jaime: If you're already considering it, I think that's a good sign and I would say definitely consider it, especially if you're thinking of doing it but don't think you're the typical mold. I think that's also a good sign because it means that you've got something unique to contribute.
I think that's really important in law, the life experiences and perspectives that people bring to the law.
Caiti: If anyone is considering doing law, I'd say just go for it. You might struggle in the first year or so, but everyone does so don’t be deterred. You do have to just kind of imagine you’re climbing a mountain and it’s really hard but once you get to the top, you feel so much better. It’s not like what you see in the TV shows, that's not actually what you're getting yourself into, which may be a good thing, or a bad thing.
I would say just go for it and give it your all. You may find it's not for you, but don't give up at the first hurdle.
Sarah: I would say to anyone considering studying law to try and take as many opportunities as you can with the university that you're at, because I feel like studying is only one part of it, only the very beginning of your professional career. I'm not sure about you guys, but working here has completely encouraged me to keep studying and be great in the profession, but taking those other opportunities, like meeting people because it's onerous but it's a top degree. So if you've got people around you, friends and engaging with your lecturers and seminar leaders, I wish I did that but I didn't, but just really building a support network around you at university will really help get you through.
But if you're considering it, I would give it a shot. If you like writing, yes.
I feel like you need to have some sort of passion to get through it. It's like you can't just do it if you want to get a good degree because it's not about that.
So if a law student is looking to start working part-time, how can they do it? Do you have any tips or advice for them to work part time?
Sarah: I did work experience at school with a law firm and then when I graduated, I think it was second semester of my degree, I reached out to the firm that I did work experience with, and said, Hi, do you remember me? If you need any legal support, I'd be happy to help. And they got back to me and said, yes come and work part-time. So that's how I entered.
To get to QLS, I just kept an eye out on LinkedIn and seek, I think they post in some places like UQ student hub as well, where they post different opportunities as well for volunteer training and just meeting different people. I feel like when you're starting out, you sort of think you're not going to be much help, but you can actually be a lot of help to them. For me, I just wanted to get on deck so that's how I got started.
Caiti: I think just keep your eye out. There's always opportunities floating around. The unis are really good or at least UQ in my experience has been really good at promoting jobs that are, that are open, whether it's the uni itself or the University of Queensland Law Society. They are really good at collating jobs that are open and circulating those to the students. But probably just remember there will be an opportunity out there for you and you'll get there in a myriad of different ways. Not everyone goes down the same path, it doesn't happen the same way for everyone, so I guess just don't give up because I know that sometimes it could feel like you're never going to get there but you will.
Jaime: Also, don't be afraid to reach out to community legal centres and volunteer to begin with. At uni we have a community justice project, elective class, you apply for it. I don't know if they still do it, but I did this before I started here and it's for a semester and we went to work at LawRight for one day a week. They were actually on level three of this building and as that ended, that's when I started here. So it was a cool sort of crossover of maybe two weeks and then I was back here, which is cool because I was a little bit sad to leave. I think UQ has a similar program.
Sarah: Yes, very true, there are volunteering opportunities through Women's Legal Service, Caxton Legal Centre and others.
Caiti: Most of the community legal centres are really calling out for volunteers and you learn some very valuable skills. I also did some volunteer work at a CLC before I started here and the interactions you have with clients, people that are vulnerable, that's invaluable experience as well. And that translates into so many different situations which I think is really, really useful.
If you are interested in working at the Queensland Law Society please check the careers page on our website regularly here, vacancies are also posted on SEEK or express your interest by sending your resume through to employment@qls.com.au.